ST published my letter [updated – ‘with a cherry on top’] [url updates, Ctrl+F ‘portillo’, Ctrl+F ‘raft’]

>>Update 04Apr2k17
Announcing:
http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-create-a-graphene-based-sieve-that-turns-seawater-into-drinking-water
The raft idea is much more humane with this scientific advance, it’s almost foregone – the basic training ensures that only losing the will to live during exile, or natural causes will mean the demise of the individual.


>>Update 10May2k8
  I have put the latest update here, headlining the weblog – a ‘cherry’ to top it off with regarding whatever form it takes in the future as the sentiment in this letter is a summary statement on crime that even a criminal should agree with for want of a better life.
I only found out this letter had been published today, the 12th of May – didn’t get the Saturday paper ’til a neighbour sent their’s.   I had not expected it since I wrote before the Ashby Link meeting on the 23rd last month – this means it is edited by the paper so the meeting is now referred to here in past tense….

Every Crime Has A Victim

My original was eye-catching, but perhaps self-centred for the readers’ liking….
…..that’s what a “viewpoint”‘s about though isn’t it?

Re Crime On The Agenda[1]
Re Crime On The Agenda[2]
Re Crime On The Agenda[3]
Re Crime On The Agenda

   I’m happy to say that with specific regard to that editing for correct tense, I had included a .doc attachment with the email stating it’s message would “stand the test of time”, and so here we see precisely that – the same message getting through either side of the event, & after editing…
<<

[[//ST published my letter….

  I had read Jim Green’s letter to Viewpoint which fairly puts the case forward for smokers from a non-smoker’s point-of-view, one I share – there are real criminals commiting crimes that make you feel right at home nattering to an old buddy who lights up and shoots the breeze with you as dense yellow smoke curls like thick rivulets from his nose, mouth, ears, maybe also the corners of his eyes and sometimes lapsing into a doubled over fit of wheezing coughs, retching with the startled blinking of watery running peepholes that have become sunken like low-battery dimmed bulbs in dark grey caves set into a hillside of tar blocked pore blackheads….;

 

Leave Smokers & Tackle Real Crime

…and I also read George Holliday’s letter which clearly defines the measures to take against the real criminal, at least as a deterrent….

Do Public Want Death Penalty

…and which of course adds up to the possibility someone somewhere will be having a crafty fag and a lynch mob will pounce, abduct & go hang the poor blighter in the middle of the woods, …or like the man says, they could be targets for spot fines making up a day’s work keeping the law….

…so, as the law is the law, I thought it pertinent to write & relate my concern for successive Viewpoints adding up to something sinister….

Death Sentence Only For Right Reasons

…and it doesn’t stop there [probably won’t til someone’s hanging for it]….

Mr. Holliday replied, possibly bewildered at where I had gone with the issue;

Stop Teen Killings Now

 

 

I responded, keen to clarify my position and prevent any unnecessary controversy;

Re Stop Teen Killings Now

 

…but ST went with this one;

Death sentence not effective deterrent

 

…doubtless we haven’t heard the last…
Pierrepoint may have said, “…everybody deferred about who should get off”

…and I’m mildly amused; “prolific executioner” 🙂 they’ll make an oxymoron of me yet….

 

While I am waiting to see if my latest letter makes it into print, I am also actively speculating on the subject, or prospecting one might also say…

It is a matter of seeking the answer within, as if I abhor & strictly forbid crime but that I’m making it too hard for others to live as law-abiding citizens (not very likely). Or by allowing crime (without expressing so much as an opinion) I have to say either I am, or the criminal is out of control…
As I did not commit the ‘teen killing’ acts and because I see no reason for them to continue – every single instance is a lapse in something I should be able to find within and put right to prevent future breaches of the peace.

So, I am calling this inner aspect ‘conflict’ & resolve to address the issues and prevent crime resulting;

The conflict within – I shall not struggle with it.  That suits me, yet may irk others as I seem to not have a care.  Rest assured then my opinion is now expressed and there is no ‘inner’ conflict remaining.  What I have said is cut & dried.  It is served for immediate consumption, it is the last word but any other opinion is welcome as long as it’s not at the image of inner conflict [in others] going on as a result of expressing it….  In my mind this ends inner conflict – people are not then taking it upon themselves to act out something that incriminates them, surely based on conflict within them when they do.

Advice:
Don’t take a conflict to heart, don’t have it in your mind and then go sleep on it, don’t raise it with another person if it is not their conflict, don’t conflict with conflict.
Consider conflict to be an affliction….
Speak with those who conflict about these terms, stating they prevent conflict and that if you rise to an issue with a return of conflicting views, there would just be conflict to deal with, whereas deciding on no inner conflict and dealing with conflicts as only external matters that needs to be seen by those concerned also as only external matters so that conflict can end, and so maybe a great deal of affliction too, is your preferred non-conflicting route….

Because otherwise what would they inflict upon you?

update -30Jan2k8- update

…hey ho, just got word;

inclusion

 

Sure enough, opened today’s paper;

Risks Involved in Bringing Back The Death Penalty

& while I actually thought they meant this one…;

Fw Stop Teen Killings Now [further thought]

….maybe it’s on an autocue playlist.

-update 2Feb2k8 update- 

What Point

 What point?   “Better the devil you know” – Kylie Minogue

-update 7Feb2k8 update-

RDowns7Feb

…I missed this programme and had intended to watch it, anyone else see it, got it on tape?  Is it airing again?

[update 31Jan2k10 – Finally got round to watching it, …interesting.
Hopefully Mr. Portillo will take a look at this blog and something good will come of it.]

Here’s the link; http://bestdocumentaries.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-to-kill-human-being.html

– update 8Feb2k8 update-

RDowns8Feb

….In a recent [un]related story, there is a plan for development towards housing for criminals (like a house on a street in a town), to cope with overcrowding in prisons.  There’s your answer folks, too many people, too many criminals – keep them all mixed without segregation or incarcerating them and it will sort itself out in no time….

Here’s my plan of action – all criminals have to serve time in a centrifuge simulating very strong gravity – upon release any effort that requires more than just a very light step or mild action sends them reeling because their muscles are developed for that kind of gravity, it will cause a ‘knee-jerk’ reaction making them leap into the air spinning out of control or throw themselves writhing onto the floor…..

   …Would that work?

Anyway, they’ve had a vote…,

Should Criminals Be Put Up In Homes

  No wonder there’s overcrowding, look at HM’s Lincoln gaff….

Smashed Glass

 

 Get your name on the waiting list for stately accomodation with unrivalled security (second choice detached town house dwelling option may be incurred at allocation limit).   Who’s getting a sense of win/win from that….?

[ – Update 20 March Update – ]

I suppose something would have been printed in the end – I sent around three or four ‘variations’ marking my exit (like the discussion will ever end without bringing the death penalty back*)
This one is now published;

Future Brings Interest In Death

*I supposed that a televised programme completely documenting the process of execution could be made possible from the pointers above;
Firstly the presenter does not appear on screen solemn-faced, looks at his watch, and says, “Well ladies and gentlemen it’s high noon, all people are in place and the condemned are making their way from the holding cells under tight supervision – all the final light, sound & camera checks have been done so it just remains for me to announce …”
In voice-over Announcer’s Voice style;

  “- I – T ‘ S – – E – X – E – C – U – T – I – O – N – – T – I – M – E – ! – ! – ! -“

…and some kind of circus show theme with strains of death metal plays an intro for camera position two where the presenter has taken up a place for last minute words with one of the condemned….

Come on folks – that simply wouldn’t do…..

To give you something to think about – I’ve written how it should go & because even that has pitfalls (like looking into a condemned person’s eyes as a completely uninvolved third party who’s just channel-hopping to see what’s on), I’ve presented another option;

1st – it should be done like this if it has to be a televised event;

  The presenter comes into view – the air is of a funeral, & that is what it is by any other name besides execution.
He welcomes the viewing audience and details the set & procedure with those present and those present with an active role – it is a rote piece – once out of the way it is no more remarkable than an open grave awaiting it’s occupant and the viewers are given a very real sense of not needing to be there if there’s something else they can be getting on with – time is slowed to a sluggish tick.
One of the things touched upon though is that this person is going to their death, as sentenced by a person acting as the voice of the people in exercising the practise of law, and so the human race is separated in the way deemed most applicable with the accused in custody and subject to the agreed measure of justice.

With all spoken matters including a judge, a priest and the condemned man’s final words said, the executioner and his aides have the man positioned in the device that will end his life – Ideally it should quickly separate his vital life supporting functions from the life which they support although beheading a person would be messy, so probably best it is a mechanically tightening band – whereby the head is held steady and the band tightens around the neck with the rest of the body twisted like a key to break the neck and constrict the throat while also simultaneously lifting through 180° pivoting around the neck, up behind the head to complete the process – the viewers are seeing the head face-on in it’s fixed position – in particular the eyes belying the moment of death.
The body as the moving part, which is seen to swiftly manouver from under the head is fully bound preventing any limb movement and with a full body shot appears to leave just the head floating in the clamped position – an almost fully separating process, but not removing the head, so it is without spilling bodily fluid.

Seen from the side;

possible method for death sentence

   [The executioner has a further ‘secondary’ disposal method – because there would be no full recovery from this if it did not successfully dispatch – it affixes a valve onto the scalp, into which an electrically charged & barbed fibre is shot – it enters the brain and writhes with electricity, numbing and paralysing any life left in the body & causing the barbs to lacerate the brain tissue until death is finally claimed.]

This is followed by the priest saying final words, the presenter with a lead-out and the whole thing is less than five minutes with no credits rolling – no graphics – just an appointed time & channel offering the chance to see the condemned executed as would befit the requirements of people who need to see that life terminated for their own peace of mind.

 – My issue with this is that television will become made for it – same as the internet…. it’s ‘no go’ or ‘all systems go’ with no middle ground to speak of for exactly that reason – those tuning in would not have too much of a care for justice being done and simply watch for the ghoulish delight….

So;

2nd Here then is my proposal which is food for thought – it takes the regular complaint that prisoners have a comparative life of luxury at the taxpayers’ expense and cuts the cost down to a bare miniumum while offering a chance outside of the civilised world that the sentenced cannot resolve to live in without perpetrating crimes.

It is called ‘Raft’

I drafted it in 2002 & haven’t really changed it any since;

This is my humane idea – anyone who can take this further is welcome to do so;

A FACT
The repeat offender – murderer, rapist, paedophile, terrorist, etc. who is deemed unsafe for ANY community, will one day cost the taxpayer as they stay at Her Majesty’s leisure.

A MONEY SAVING HUMANE FACT
A non-capsizable, reusable, retrievable raft with basic shelter, change of clothes, fishing hooks, line and gutting knife.
The offender and the raft fitted with thermo-sensitive GPS beacon.  Two weeks training available upon request.

 The cost of that compared to their stay in HM Prisons

If the GPS shows this person to have drifted within a few miles of any shoreline worldwide – armed troops are waiting along that shore.  The offender is returned to the middle of the ocean.

The raft interlocks with another raft should the twain ever meet, a community may be built up.  If the thermo sensor shows an offender on linked rafts has ‘died’ (lower body temp), their raft is retrieved – it’s all about community.

They pose no more threat to civilisation
They serve as a formidable deterrent.

It’s humane because the needs of the many are considered, because the offender is given another chance, and because it goes down in history in the eyes of the populace as a sick person having their life turned around to do something very noble for a humane cause, i.e. preventing this crime reoccurring.

If an appeal is forthcoming prior to this sentence, the offender should be very sure they have never offended.

Q. Would you like to pose a question about drinking water?

A.  Yes, it is a formidable deterrent!


 – My only change to it is that I have made a conceptual effort to make a provision of drinking water available – this is requiring the prisoner’s own efforts though, and the same for heat/cool, and a nutrient pellet that is formed from sea water the same as the drinking water purification filters elements out. All done by pedal power – working to earn a reprieve and sustain the life. Assuming this is a feat of scientific genius, the bait, line & hooks are still laid on.

raft [s]

raft [s]ii

 

raft [m]

 

  raft [inside]

 

raft [inside detail]

It is one step closer to a possible solution for those to whom civilisation means nothing – or they would be civilised, this takes all aspects of human occupation out of their existence to the fullest degree for the rest of their lifetime.

A final thought is that submersibles could tow the raft to counter any drift, so no further contact is ever necessary again as no shoreline is ever neared.

One foresees a reality show with these however using geostationery satellite imagery, GPS tracking and a studio presenter with a feature called,

    …. ‘This is HM’s leisure, not Majorca – Send in Orca!’….

…Somehow, I predict, it will become sensational and therefore not universally acceptable.

– Update 23Mar2k8 Update –

All clever stuff eh?

Well, this is a prerequisite for living conditions;

“CONTACT”

That’s right, plain simple contact with another person, what about completely removing it…?
An inmate serving life (formerly death row, but still needing degrees of ‘punishment’) could be given all modern conveniences, even tv & the internet [with address bar access only] but never ever be able to touch another person again for the rest of their life, and of the people they could come into contact with – none of whom could possibly be inmates – any contact made is reported and they lose the next level of living condition privileges;

“LINE OF SIGHT”

A prisoner whose right to contact with another person is removed, who then comes into contact with another person is taken from sight – they may never look upon another person again, achieved by using adjacent cells (even moving walls) to ensure they have reasonable hygiene and regular basics still provided.
If this is breached – and it would only ever be by the prisoner making an attempt to defy the means of this confinement, then it goes one level deeper still…

“EARSHOT”

No sounds from people will ever be heard again – the prisoner becomes increasingly alone in their own mind but from this point they will not hear any [voice, or human-made sound] prompts to make the necessary moves to a clean cell/where food is prepared waiting.  At this stage cells and corridors may be padded.  If this is breached through e.g. ‘strike’ action (attention grabbing, with a thought to cameras, monitoring this to assist with the nil-contact method, that can be poked through the padding on needle tip lenses, virtually invisible and retractable too – same camera can run along a track and service a full floor of rooms – so no damage could bring a technician or incur further costs.  Also padding is ‘rinse clean’) a further level of sensory deprivation ensues;

“SMELL/TASTE”

Either or both, food can be made bland & a permeating all-enveloping aroma can prevail – there are ways to wriggle out of this being imposed though – licking things, avoiding personal hygiene to a degree causing stronger body odour which can be isolated by getting it on the hands and cupping them over the nose.  At this stage the prisoner has become almost as pure ‘filtered’ as an embryo, so if an evaluation determines they are not progressing away from their criminal intentions and will not be successfully reintegrated with sensory input, much less repopulated with other people – then the last remaining sense (not too fast – counting this as a two step module, one sense at a time) is;

“TOUCH”

Which pertains directly to all of the skin & more and although I have said in the past of certain perpetrators, “SKIN THEM ALIVE!!!”, this would actually mean death – so it reaches a conclusion about humane treatment of someone who cannot be trusted with their own sense of the world (yes, you can actually feel sympathy for them here like it’s more the sensory input [to blame] that they would be completely different without – but know what you’re celebrating too you lucky civilised sensor hub!) & so my rollout, as already previewed is arriving at the most considerate solution for a human who just isn’t civilised enough [too inhuman] to live in civilisation but must also be separated from any possible means of contact/stimulus so even prison is too much freedom for their ways with people & their own senses…, ….then RAFT.

Now this has definitely considered that their crimes took place in civilisation and that regardless of incarceration they continue to be the same & pose no less a threat instigating this gradual erosion of sensory input to the point where they must have something like the floating tranquility of a foetus growing silently & serenely and awaiting emergence into the world……   If they cannot follow the simple routine of how they must behave to get out of there though – a thing that can be monitored and lenient rather than punishing & demanding – then they will end up on a raft out at sea where they have the elements for company and little evidence of anything they were ever associated with in a previous lifetime – they will be made anew and under surveillance continually determining any development as to the worthiness of the raft proposal, they will never threaten civilisation again.
No truly civilised person would go beyond conjecture as to the death sentence being a means of justice if there was ever a chance a person had the answer to ending the apparent need for it (through better instilled civilisation), but only by them being the kind of person thought deserving of it….

Take Adolf Hitler e.g.
There’s at least a 1:6000000 chance someone Jewish who died through the Nazi campaign could have said,  “Hey, woah, I know exactly what you mean – Aryan, supreme above & beyond all humans’ expectations of themselves even in their most prestigious, esteemed and highest hopes for the human race – I am a learned professor/scientist & can assure you of this: It is entirely possible!!   However it will take every last man, woman & child living a long, natural, healthy life for the rest of all time to accomplish – you cannot rush these things, it will come about – someone coined a phrase for it….  Natural Selection, that’s it.  Do not go about this in an unnatural way assuming power over people and the direction their life is taking – millions could needlessly lose their lives as a result!  I’m sure if you need it done it can be expedited, but it shouldn’t cause harm to anyone or it will be a short term success – generations of those Aryans may be unable to contend with the circumstances surrounding their origins”…  & actually have changed Hitler’s mind about it so he never instigated it (that’s not to say someone else wouldn’t, even bumping Hitler off to make it possible to do it in the same seat of power, but that’s another gas chamber of slaughtered innocents entirely).

–  Update 25th March 2k8 Update –

….& up it pops again, I think I’ll comment on w.thisisscunthorpe with a link to this page

Prison Is No Longer A Deterrent

Could the whole issue fit in one blog …. ?  Probably not, save for a succinct expression which would just set everyone [reluctantly] in their ways for want of another way to say it as acute & relaxed at the same time – thank Christ for that & we’ll see I suppose.

In fact supposing they had it all laid on – a home from home, all ‘mod cons’…;

1st, If they use the pool table – then they are in a league & they are encouraged to become champion players – same for table tennis, chess – anything occupying their time, so they must succeed for it to be worthwhile, otherwise the game has no time for them, they are not placed and have to wait for try-outs again (back to one session in a week).  It fairly lifts them from the life of crime & focusses them for more prolonged periods on succeeding.  Sportsmanship is a vital component too and so even a very good player, top of his game could be relegated for behavioural issues – it is time served in a worthwhile way because if they ever got out of prison having sat twiddling their thumbs for years on end – we, the people would likely find them intolerable to be around – integration is the issue if they will ever be released, and incarcerating a person means they’re not free, not that they’re bound hands and feet to a framework that rotates for waking/sleeping positions and that’s that…

2nd, If they choose to do jobs to earn money, they can make a fresh start without costing a whole lot more than they already do – where does the money come from we may ask….  Well I know I don’t pay it, but then I’m not a taxpayer…  If it is made up from tax then I’m sure the terrible injustice will infuriate people who cannot see the point.  Think on this though: Get someone who has idled away years of their life to do anything for eight hours a day.  I managed a gym & talked to many people who felt sorely put out for missing a couple of sessions, and having had a long time away from work with illness (exhausted myself, messed my nerves up), I also know the feeling of not being certain I have stamina for the day at work I’m contractually obligated to arrive in and fulfil to the employer’s expectations.

 All the decisions made for people in prison have to consider people who have absolutely no criminal record or a connection to someone with one – not that they need to toughen up, but that maybe the world is not even a hard place to live in any more.  We are top of the food chain and automation is doing more than a few million jobs – by the time we are a truly spacefaring species with the policing of an entire galactic quadrant or more, chances are we’ll be no more substantial than a ball of yarn and as easy to reel in as a yo-yo, the only hardened thing about us will be a crumple zone built to warp speed specifications.

If prison doesn’t cure people of crime – they stay in/repeatedly return to prison – if that continues to cost us & we strongly object, either change who [what] you vote for or start your own party outlining your ‘policy’.  If you find you’re the only person voicing that opinion and everybody else contents themselves with government & taxation doing the right thing by them, then consider writing not just a letter, but the book that collates every last vestige of the criminal mentality where it touches, unwelcome, on to your life – pretty soon you’ll have the formula for steering the whole thing out of the mess you perceive it is in – words are mighty after all, & practise makes perfect…

   Update additional (27 March)

Had to go looking in a pile of backup discs, or I would have rounded up with it in the aforementioned paragraph,
….. here in some kind of sinister ominous reflection is something I wrote almost two years ago to the day I wrote in to Viewpoint about the death sentence letter Mr. Holliday wrote;

The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword

 It can arouse a kind of feeling that people who commit violent acts must therefore lack the intellect & gumption to see themselves clear of perpetrating them, unless they actually expect to get away with it or just do not care for the consequences.  It has a kind of sense that people who are academically progressing, particularly with reference to written and spoken language, will be given a much easier path to take through life – they simply communicate better, not just with a broader vocabulary but an understanding of it that makes them clearer – and get out of a bad situation sooner.   Another angle though is that a highly literate person (e.g. the teaching professor) is making this threat, but of course implying nothing more ‘physical’ than putting pen to paper and scathing your efforts, like a sentry in your future, if you do not make the grade….

– Update 27 March 2k8 Update –

Girl [12] in Knife Ordeal

   Well…, it seems knives are having some kind of resurgence – probably too many people going about their business with daggers in their backs, forgotten about because of the inherent thick skin the older generation has and exacerbated because the younger generation has more of the world to contend with as we advance our communication skills and networks, and there’s increasingly more in the past (let sleeping dogs lie…) – something always gets mixed up, then rubbed up the wrong way, a shame it leads to such violent acts, and yes, a shame someone then gets a meal ticket to go with their infamy & notoriety…..

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9 Responses to ST published my letter [updated – ‘with a cherry on top’] [url updates, Ctrl+F ‘portillo’, Ctrl+F ‘raft’]

  1. Madebydreams says:

    I saw you stopped by my site- thought I should tell you it never hurts to say hello-
    BTW “hello”
    and I like what you are doing here!

  2. SuSu says:

    The death penalty undoubtedly deters that one killer from killing again, but there has never been any credible evidence that it stops others from killing. Your centrifuge idea, I think, once they learned to adapt to their new-found strength, would create a class of ultra-agile criminals, able to leap tall buildings….

  3. red_empathy says:

    Knud isn’t.
    Identify the synaptical relay and trigger additional neural shock from implants, rather discussing the merit of something to deter further offences, than the doomed to failure from the outset point of view.   It is a simple thing to find & address in the subject because the individual is actually reeling from cognitive misinformation at this juncture.  Dink.
    …& the death penalty doesn’t have to just be for killlers, witches haven’t been executed for a long time so they will be like a small forest of kindling… Dink.
    p r a r n – p r o o o

  4. Yes Mr. Toper’s message refers to that point & for the other matter, please refer to the Weblog entitled ‘Whilst In Sclav

  5. d1zy says:

    I have really enjoyed reading this page and am half-way through. however, i must make comment on your amusing methods of killing/imprisonment:over the years, I have asked experienced professionals about the incidence of ‘wrong-uns’ in society. overall, their numbers corresponded. ~3% are born mad, bad and dangerous. another 2-3% are born antisocial but go under the radar. another 2-5% (depending on geo-politics) are born ok but become damaged by circumstance during youth and end up being mad, bad and dangerous. from the remainder of society, expect half to be selfish cretins with a clean public face who hope to go unnoticed by pointing the finger at the very worst people. a bullet through the brain is cheap, painless and instant. wrong-uns abound. they are incurable and dozens more are born each day. I love what you’ve done with this page but please, when you feel tempted to devise the most ingenious ACME imprisonment system or, a surefire biomechanical hanging system… don’t.

  6. @d1zy – You can be certain of one thing 🙂  I’m not doing it again – this is my contribution on the subject, as comprehensive and unabridged as I will muster…, ….well – except for this: DefTruck…, ….oh & this as well: Rote’s Crypt – but that’s about it, I think….Ordinarily I’d have an idea how/why you arrived – I’ve just referenced this page on Y!A, but your visit to it does not show in the last four days of ‘footprints’ [you can check yours out in your profile ‘Feedback’], are you on Knoppix or something? 🙂 Thanks for taking the time to read though, and for posting a response – I am pleased to make your acquaintance :)Kind regardsChristian

  7. d1zy says:

    @ChristianHilton –  indeed. I posted questions in a forum about law/ethics. someone answered with a link to this page. that’s why i came here directly with no previous history (you can check who that was and thank them for me). anyway, i’m grateful to him/her. finding loads of good stuff on xanga.

  8. @d1zy – Ahhh, I’m beginning to think we two are four people that are in fact two… 🙂  The feedback>footprints page on Xanga usually has a ‘referrer’, it’s the page ‘arrived from’ and that question on Y!A was 13hrs old when I last replied in this thread, so it was either today’s or yesterday’s footprints and yet there wasn’t even your visit to the page, much less the page you were linking from – I was a little bewildered at that but it has since appeared in the 21 hours since, although still no referrer, and because it was a Firefox browser, probably not Knoppix [it’s typically Iceweasel] …So while I have less interest than it may seem as I expatiate upon this matter, I probably seem like a myopic bottle bottom monocle for all this conjecture and wild shots in the dark……To clarify, I think I am ‘someone’ answering with a link to this page, and you are posting the question I answered – while here I am talking about them two/three? as if I owe them a debt of gratitude – which I suppose is right because it sparked this conversation thread, and I am ever so grateful you have taken the time – much obliged

  9. d1zy says:

    @ChristianHilton – yes, I just realised my misunderstanding. i shall learn to use the xanga stats. thx.

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